Friday, November 6, 2009

From the fine EB folks

This is from the fine ladies at They've written a fine article and I hope they don't mind me riding on thier coat tails to bring this to your attention.

Etsy doesn't allow returns

One of the 'clarifications' in the changed Dos and Don'ts was regarding cancelled transactions:
The seller may cancel an invalid or void transaction, as defined by these circumstances:-The buyer did not pay (see Non-payment) at the time the transaction was created, according to the transaction agreement or according to the terms in the seller's Shop Policies.-Both the buyer and seller agree to cancel the transaction prior to shipment. If the buyer has already paid, the seller has refunded buyer (price paid for item plus shipping).-The seller has refused service to the buyer (see Refusing service).

If the buyer hasalready paid, the seller has refunded the buyer (price paid for item plus shipping).-The buyer paid for the item(s). Although the seller shipped the item(s), the buyer did not receive the item(s). The seller has refunded the buyer (price paid for item at minimum).But sellers wonder, what about when the sale is refunded because the item was returned? As far as Etsy cares, it was a sale, so they keep their fees... Even if you don't get paid!

Stellaloella says:
The DOs & DON'Ts of Etsy define transactions as such: "A transaction is created when a buyer completes Etsy's checkout process. [...] An Etsy transaction is completed when the buyer pays and the seller ships the item."Canceling a transaction is linked to refunding a seller their listing and transaction fees. In the case that the buyer wishes to return the item and the seller agrees to a refund, that is still a valid, completed transaction for which Etsy requires fees to be paid by the seller. Etsy has provided a completed transaction service to the seller.

If the seller chooses to accept a return and possibly refund the buyer, that does not negate that Etsy has provided an agreed-upon service for which we should be paid. This was not clearly outlined in our policies in the past, and some sellers took advantage of the opportunity to cancel valid, completed transactions for the purpose of avoiding Etsy's fees or feedback from buyers.

Yep, it's the sellers' fault. Offering refunds on returns like good business people...expecting a completed sale to be the point of a listing. Paypal may do it, but they're suckers!Don't you all realize that the point of listing on Etsy is to pay them!? All those poor admin working all day and you guys want to take away their fees for doing nothing! shame on you.On a nonsarcastic note, if the seller doesn't get paid, Etsy shouldn't either.

They already received the listing fee for the interaction with the buyer, but if the seller isn't paid for the item (including refunds on returns) then Etsy shouldn't get the percentage cut of the sale price. But then again, Etsy likes to take money that isn't theirs, like the fee for sale prices on weekend deals.

By the way, kind of nice of Etsy to put this policy into play without notifying their members. Hands up for everyone who's gotten an email about the new Dos and Don'ts...yeah, it doesn't matter that I can't see you, I know there aren't any hands up.


  1. There is a thread going on this topic in the Forum...all any of us can really do to recoup that money is to add it to the shipping costs of the returned item-and make sure the buyer is aware ahead of now, if a buyer wants to return something, they have to pay return shipping and the Etsy fees...doesn't this make our site attractive to potential buyers...not!

  2. I have no idea why some of you are freaking out about this. from day one I never would have thought to ask for my fees back because of a refund issue. That makes no sense at all. Think people!!!!

  3. and once again, the point is lost and the desire to explain to someone who is already insulting, with it.

  4. I would just like to add that in the case of Double dipping lets take a big old look at the removing expired listings. I have many things I sell at shows that I would like to remove. IF they are expired I have to relist and then delete. and BTW CINDY, ETSY got their fee from the LISTING, if the item is relisted due to a sale, then its really Triple dipping. LIST SALE return and RELIST... I DO think about it. I would never hold back a few cents from something I sold and was returned I ever return their shipping cost, and thats because I want to be a FAIR SELLER. which Etsy seems to forget and is one of the main problems for all of our complaints, that WE are THEIR CUSTOMERS.

  5. Don't mean to be insulting - I had just finished reading some of the forum threads and wow - there are certainly some extremes out there. To reiterate, I just never thought to expect my 3.5% fee back. A transaction occurred - after the transaction it is between the seller and buyer. Maybe that is why I'm not alarmed that they have taken it away. Maybe try to understand my point.

    There are a LOT of people that think the way I do - Just don't want to be jumped on in the forums.

  6. I understand and respect your point. I have yet to see anyone who takes my stance talk to someone who shares your view the way that some who share your view have.

    No one has said 'Cindy, how can you be so stupid! Etsy is robbing you!" etc. but over and over I see people who think it's no big deal speak to those of us that do as if we are stupid, have no business sense, or just like to whine.

    If E hadn't been skimming, malfunctioning and outright lying to sellers for how many months, i might be inclined to share your view.

    But to keep adding insult to injury and yet, again, not inform anyone, makes that impossible for me to do.

    If the people who didn't have an issue would either simply allow us to have ours (it won't impact you in a negative way) or if compelled to address us, do so with respect, the forums would be a much more efficient place.

    As it is, things get derailed, distracted and nothing positive ever come of it.

  7. Could be that shoppers will start returning items to Etsy for a refund because they were convinced it was Etsy the brand who sold it to them.

  8. The Etsy Bitches don't even have any credibility anymore.


  9. PD, I'm not sure how that relates or is in reference too. I'm not involved in 'all that' I just wanted to make it a little easier on myself by nicking the post.

    So far, they seem to be on the money, so to speak. But again, it's not a personal thing for me, just info.